Add to this that the F-35 requires a huge crew for everyday operation and maintenance. Maintenance costs for the F-35 are huge compared to the Grippen. Yes. The F-35 is a high cost poodle show dog. The Gripen is a sled dog that will always get you where you have to go, including when nothing else can get you there. On a related note, it seems to me I remember reading something you wrote a long ago. It may have been in Voltaire’s Bastards. But you wrote of how we are really a Nordic country, and we should be hooking up with them to share technology, such as Arctic technology and that we really have more in common with these countries (including our social democratic leanings) than the US. While I always agreed with you, I have thought a lot recently of how 100% bang on you were. But not only that, about how Canadians seem to finally be understanding that.
Thanks so much for your interesting and kind comments. And for adding the bit about the huge crew the F-35 requires for everyday maintenance.
I wrote about Canada as a northern nation at length in A Fair Country. We do need to keep on repeating this. As I have mentioned in the past, the loud voices of some of the southern urban elites with their eyes fixed on their holiday houses in Palm Beach or Aspen can cause many Canadian policy makers to forget the reality of our own territory and where our responsibilities lie.
Most Americans truly believe that being part of the United States is a blessing and why would anyone refuse? They are taken aback by our response and many are offended. I’ll take the Grippen.
Yes, Saab GripenE for Canada -- instead of "leasing" any more F-35s.
Saab wants to expand GripenE production.
Sweden is a small country (10 million), SaabAB has a small workforce (27,000). SaabAB needs to add capacity and Canada can provide that. Saab wants to _build GripenE under license in Canada, which would keep defence spending in Canada, flowing to Canadian workers, Canadian companies and Canadian suppliers.
"Under license" means manufacturing is done at home and Saab gets a license fee for its blueprints, etc.
Building under license was a multiplier for Canada in the past.
Canadair used to build Canada's fighter jets (CT-133, CF-86, CF-104, CF-5) under license in Canada. Canadair had even improved upon the F-86 by replacing its US-built GE engine with the better-performing Canadian-built Orenda engine.
And Canadair also built those jets for others besides the RCAF, for countries that did not have the capacities at the time: Belgium, WestGermany, Netherlands,Turkey, etc.
The multiplier: Canadair then also _created the Tutor (Snowbirds), the Challenger, the CRJ, the CL-415 "super scooper" water bomber.
The multiplier keeps working:
— Saab GlobalEye AWACS, just purchased by France (and soon Canada, too, and possibly NATO as well), uses Bombardier Global 6500 airframes -- airframes evolved directly from the CRJ ( Canadair Regional Jet );
— the CL-415 "super scooper" is now in much demand for fighting wild fires and it's being updated as the DHC-515 by a resurrected DeHavillandCanada.
Throughout the cold war Sweden was steadfast in making its own jets.
Partnering with Saab on GripenE puts Canada in position to help develop the next generation of jets for both Sweden and Canada, jets which can then be built once the final GripenE rolls off the line.
Why buy defence hardware from an unstable vendor that has TWICE-elected a leader who is hostile to its NORAD partner?
US has some unresolved issues -- current president was elected not once but _TWICE. Upcoming elections will still include the same voters that put him in office so it might be some time -- if ever -- before US returns to friendliness of past generations. Best to steer clear for now.
What use is the F-35 as a common jet for NATO if the F-35 vendor nation threatens to abandon NATO? How can NATO be expected to trust the F-35 vendor nation ever again?
What happens to a global supply chain during times of conflict?
What happens to the disperse F-35 supply chain if the F-35 vendor nation becomes surly? Will clients still get the parts they need or will they be cut off? (extreme example: Iran's orphaned F-14s) And what happens to F-35 sales when clients have second thoughts about buying (leasing?) F-35s from a surly vendor nation?
On the other hand, thanks to Putin, Sweden recently _joined NATO so GripenE will now be included in NATO arrangements.
F-35 has "gee whiz" features but Gripen does the job well enough.
Canadian taxpayers drive inexpensive reliable Civics and RAV4s -- cars that get the job done just fine -- cars that are built in Canada -- so why should Canadian taxpayers have to buy flying Ferraris from a hostile vendor?
F-35 seems to take 10 times more effort to keep flying than Gripen (ref: Swiss, RAF).
Would you rather your air force pilots be in the air gaining flight hours or sitting on their hands waiting for their hangar queen to come out of the shop?
Equipment purchases of this size are also about economic benefit.
For proof look no further than US defence budgets: US congress and senators all try to make sure defence spending goes to their districts. If US takes that approach then why should Canada be any different?
Defending Canada includes defending Canadian _jobs.
SPAIN GETS THIS. CANADA GETS THIS. THE REST OF THE WORLD NEEDS TO GET THIS. America is a WEAPONS INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX it terrorizes countries and then sells them arms so they can protect themselves. It is an endless revenue stream. America supports Isreal so Isreal can terrorize the middle east. ISREAL and AMERICA are partners. It has worked that way since after WWII. America has always made money from terror and protection. It did not start with Trump. Too long a story. But yesterday in the golden office Trump said a bunch of world leaders in the middle east are begging the U.S. for protection. Protection money, you can’t get more mobster-like then that. Oh yeah, all that oil America will be getting, he will skim a few bucks off the top of that for himself. CANADA IS BEING REBORN. We must FREE ourselves from America. If Canada buys U.S. F35s we give up far too much to a terrorist nation. ELBOWS UP Canada. 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 SAY NO.
We could do our northern people a huge service by asking them to make the choice for us! They know how to pick work dogs and a thing or two about operating machinery in a forbidding and unforgiving climate!
In practical warfare the F-35 has too many range and availability issues it should be taken off any country’s list. Those who bought it were arm twisted by several US presidents. If you really have to buy a fighter from the US🙄, order a F-18 super Hornet but for obvious reasons better to select a Gripen or a Rafale
If the middle powers are to come into their own they must rely on each other for their future defence and survival. Ditch buying any armaments & other critical material from any of the three big powers. The big powers superior technology has performed very poorly in locations such as Ukraine and Iran, what additional examples do we need?
I'm no expert here, but I keep reading about F-35 "sustainment" (aka ongoing maintenance issues). The US military can't keep its various F-35 fleet in flying shape (whether because of a lack of parts, software issues or personnel issues). The US Air Force recently received a shipment of planes with ballast where the radar was supposed to be - the radar wasn't ready.
I somehow don't think that Canada's maintenance needs will get much attention if the US Air Force/Navy/Marines are having sustainment issues
Agree...getting out from under the yoke of the american military industrial complex SHOULD be job number one and lil ole me will lobby to that effect. How many others will? Enough to affect change? This all causes me to sweat and lose sleep.
Add to this that the F-35 requires a huge crew for everyday operation and maintenance. Maintenance costs for the F-35 are huge compared to the Grippen. Yes. The F-35 is a high cost poodle show dog. The Gripen is a sled dog that will always get you where you have to go, including when nothing else can get you there. On a related note, it seems to me I remember reading something you wrote a long ago. It may have been in Voltaire’s Bastards. But you wrote of how we are really a Nordic country, and we should be hooking up with them to share technology, such as Arctic technology and that we really have more in common with these countries (including our social democratic leanings) than the US. While I always agreed with you, I have thought a lot recently of how 100% bang on you were. But not only that, about how Canadians seem to finally be understanding that.
Thanks so much for your interesting and kind comments. And for adding the bit about the huge crew the F-35 requires for everyday maintenance.
I wrote about Canada as a northern nation at length in A Fair Country. We do need to keep on repeating this. As I have mentioned in the past, the loud voices of some of the southern urban elites with their eyes fixed on their holiday houses in Palm Beach or Aspen can cause many Canadian policy makers to forget the reality of our own territory and where our responsibilities lie.
I’ve been very happy with Mark Carney’s energetic outreach to our northern friends.
Most Americans truly believe that being part of the United States is a blessing and why would anyone refuse? They are taken aback by our response and many are offended. I’ll take the Grippen.
Agree absolutely!
Yes, Saab GripenE for Canada -- instead of "leasing" any more F-35s.
Saab wants to expand GripenE production.
Sweden is a small country (10 million), SaabAB has a small workforce (27,000). SaabAB needs to add capacity and Canada can provide that. Saab wants to _build GripenE under license in Canada, which would keep defence spending in Canada, flowing to Canadian workers, Canadian companies and Canadian suppliers.
"Under license" means manufacturing is done at home and Saab gets a license fee for its blueprints, etc.
Building under license was a multiplier for Canada in the past.
Canadair used to build Canada's fighter jets (CT-133, CF-86, CF-104, CF-5) under license in Canada. Canadair had even improved upon the F-86 by replacing its US-built GE engine with the better-performing Canadian-built Orenda engine.
And Canadair also built those jets for others besides the RCAF, for countries that did not have the capacities at the time: Belgium, WestGermany, Netherlands,Turkey, etc.
The multiplier: Canadair then also _created the Tutor (Snowbirds), the Challenger, the CRJ, the CL-415 "super scooper" water bomber.
The multiplier keeps working:
— Saab GlobalEye AWACS, just purchased by France (and soon Canada, too, and possibly NATO as well), uses Bombardier Global 6500 airframes -- airframes evolved directly from the CRJ ( Canadair Regional Jet );
— the CL-415 "super scooper" is now in much demand for fighting wild fires and it's being updated as the DHC-515 by a resurrected DeHavillandCanada.
Throughout the cold war Sweden was steadfast in making its own jets.
Partnering with Saab on GripenE puts Canada in position to help develop the next generation of jets for both Sweden and Canada, jets which can then be built once the final GripenE rolls off the line.
Why buy defence hardware from an unstable vendor that has TWICE-elected a leader who is hostile to its NORAD partner?
US has some unresolved issues -- current president was elected not once but _TWICE. Upcoming elections will still include the same voters that put him in office so it might be some time -- if ever -- before US returns to friendliness of past generations. Best to steer clear for now.
What use is the F-35 as a common jet for NATO if the F-35 vendor nation threatens to abandon NATO? How can NATO be expected to trust the F-35 vendor nation ever again?
What happens to a global supply chain during times of conflict?
What happens to the disperse F-35 supply chain if the F-35 vendor nation becomes surly? Will clients still get the parts they need or will they be cut off? (extreme example: Iran's orphaned F-14s) And what happens to F-35 sales when clients have second thoughts about buying (leasing?) F-35s from a surly vendor nation?
On the other hand, thanks to Putin, Sweden recently _joined NATO so GripenE will now be included in NATO arrangements.
F-35 has "gee whiz" features but Gripen does the job well enough.
Canadian taxpayers drive inexpensive reliable Civics and RAV4s -- cars that get the job done just fine -- cars that are built in Canada -- so why should Canadian taxpayers have to buy flying Ferraris from a hostile vendor?
F-35 seems to take 10 times more effort to keep flying than Gripen (ref: Swiss, RAF).
Would you rather your air force pilots be in the air gaining flight hours or sitting on their hands waiting for their hangar queen to come out of the shop?
Equipment purchases of this size are also about economic benefit.
For proof look no further than US defence budgets: US congress and senators all try to make sure defence spending goes to their districts. If US takes that approach then why should Canada be any different?
Defending Canada includes defending Canadian _jobs.
I think we should call the new Gripens FU - 47's.
I LOVE it!
DONT FORGET WHAT THE U.S. DID TO CANADA’S AVRO ARROW.
SPAIN GETS THIS. CANADA GETS THIS. THE REST OF THE WORLD NEEDS TO GET THIS. America is a WEAPONS INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX it terrorizes countries and then sells them arms so they can protect themselves. It is an endless revenue stream. America supports Isreal so Isreal can terrorize the middle east. ISREAL and AMERICA are partners. It has worked that way since after WWII. America has always made money from terror and protection. It did not start with Trump. Too long a story. But yesterday in the golden office Trump said a bunch of world leaders in the middle east are begging the U.S. for protection. Protection money, you can’t get more mobster-like then that. Oh yeah, all that oil America will be getting, he will skim a few bucks off the top of that for himself. CANADA IS BEING REBORN. We must FREE ourselves from America. If Canada buys U.S. F35s we give up far too much to a terrorist nation. ELBOWS UP Canada. 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦 SAY NO.
We could do our northern people a huge service by asking them to make the choice for us! They know how to pick work dogs and a thing or two about operating machinery in a forbidding and unforgiving climate!
In practical warfare the F-35 has too many range and availability issues it should be taken off any country’s list. Those who bought it were arm twisted by several US presidents. If you really have to buy a fighter from the US🙄, order a F-18 super Hornet but for obvious reasons better to select a Gripen or a Rafale
If the middle powers are to come into their own they must rely on each other for their future defence and survival. Ditch buying any armaments & other critical material from any of the three big powers. The big powers superior technology has performed very poorly in locations such as Ukraine and Iran, what additional examples do we need?
The logical choice is the Gripen. I hope our government will choose the Gripen. We need to invest in non usa products whenever possible.
I agree 100% with JRS’s assessment. And Diversifying our economy is by far our greatest defence.
Exactly!
Absolutely right! Carney’s review needs to begin with a new requirements specification for today's reality.
An absolute NO!! to any more purchase of the F35. The Gripen is better suited, cheaper to operate, and has waaaaay less maitenance downtime.
I'm no expert here, but I keep reading about F-35 "sustainment" (aka ongoing maintenance issues). The US military can't keep its various F-35 fleet in flying shape (whether because of a lack of parts, software issues or personnel issues). The US Air Force recently received a shipment of planes with ballast where the radar was supposed to be - the radar wasn't ready.
I somehow don't think that Canada's maintenance needs will get much attention if the US Air Force/Navy/Marines are having sustainment issues
Agree...getting out from under the yoke of the american military industrial complex SHOULD be job number one and lil ole me will lobby to that effect. How many others will? Enough to affect change? This all causes me to sweat and lose sleep.